Author: Mikey <[email protected]>     Reply to Message
Date: 11/6/2015 6:07:28 PM
Subject: RE: Don't stop Mikey

actually redrix I said "cops (as we know them) shouldn't exist".

Further, is the middle east really in anarchy? Aren't there a number of official/unofficial governments in place in all of the jurisdictions in which ISIS operates? I don't see how you can meaningfully call that anarchy in any sense, other than that you haven't even bothered to actually think about what you're saying very deeply.


Hollow: On the assumption that you are asking in earnest, one problem with trying to explain it clearly is that its starting in the middle of the story, and will obviously sound like nonsense without several other ideas fleshed out...

But the gist of it is that obviously we need law and order, but just because we all concede that fact doesn't immediately necessitate that law and order comes from one central, coercive, authoritarian structure.

The most crucial and undisputed laws that exist in our society are not and were not created by governments. The prohibition against murder for example, will always exist no matter what. Even if a government 'repealed' that law on the books, and no longer prosecuted murderers - it wouldn't make murder 'legal'. Real law pre-exists government. It is not created, it's discovered.

And that process of discovery happens naturally in the market. That's why some 'laws' have little or no moral force behind them - like jaywalking. A government can come by and declare that jaywalking (or smoking, or drugs, or gay sex, etc) is "illegal" but it doesn't make it so.

It just means that government authorities will use force to attempt to stop people from engaging in those behaviours.

but if those laws arent morally meaningful or persuasive, then when the government enforces them on the population I believe they are well and truly harming the population and acting themselves immorally.

The problem with modern day policing is that as the enforcers of immoral 'laws' they end up doing a great deal of harm (while also doing much good).

If we only had a small handful of laws (i.e. don't assault/kill, respect private property) then I think police would be much more highly regarded, and much more easily held to account because their power over citizens in everyday life would be next to none.

What's worse is that because police have a coercive monopoly on law and order in our state-controlled society, you can't just start competing with them and trying to offer a better service.

An important question to ask yourself is, do you feel you have sufficient access to police? Don't think just about clear emergency situations, but what about a simple burglary or stolen bike, or simple harassment?

Often in our society, problems you have that are below a certain significance threshold are completely ignored by police because they don't have the resources to pursue complaints unless they are severe enough.

But wouldn't we all be better off if there were multiple competing companies offering the same essential service that police offer? Where these companies could develop their own reputations, specializations, priorities, etc and where they could improve/evolve on their own at their own pace, based on market feedback as opposed to completely hampered and tied to the political process?

Like I said, a lot of this will sound like nonsense because there are a lot of prerequisite ideas and thinking that you have to research before you could possibly be convinced of anything I'm saying and I understand that.

Unfortunately anarchy as a concept has become synonymous with 'chaos' which is foolish.

Power corrupts, and anarchy is just a system where as much power as possible is removed from central authorities and instead everyone gets to make their own choices in life.

Anyone is free to believe that this would result in a Mad Max-esque apocalyptic hell. Unfortunately, I think the truth is that it would be a world that looks surprisingly similar to the world we currently live in, there'd just be a lot less politicians unnecessarily making decisions for the rest of us.

I'll admit, the appeal of a very, very small government who only enforced laws that had real moral force is very real to me. My worry is that power corrupts - and once that central power is created, it is not capable of limiting itself. It will always grow.

Look at even the US - a country started (naively) with extremely noble intentions that slowly over the course of 200 years found itself completely corrupted and in stark conflict with its written constitution.

It's not that I don't think we need police. I just believe the individuals in our society who perform the roles of police would be much better at their job if their bosses were disinterested capitalists who only cared about profit instead of politicians who simply cannot be trusted.

anyway, this is all just a rant and its not as thoroughly exposited as I would like but it will have to suffice for a forum post.

you were probably trolling anyway, you bastard. lol
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